Creating a Church for people who don't like Church
Just had Erwin McManus [Mosiac in LA] and Phil Baker [Riverwiew Perth Auz]in for a long weekend. Very different but the same message. Reach lost people!
Erwin is a philospher. He has around 3000 at his weekend services of whom 1000 are committed. About 20% of those coming, come from a Gay background. And yet they have created such an atmosphere of love and acceptance that even when he speaks on sexuality and plainly declares that homosexual PRACTICE is wrong, people still feel free to come and be loved. How do you do that?
Philip is a laugh a minute. His talks are jargon free and deal with "better living" topics. Nothing heavy but unless you hate his sense of humour [which some did] an unchurched person would love it or at least not be put off by religious terminology.
Would people like to listen to that type of preaching every week? Big questions.
Log on to the CFC web site www.cfc-net.org for free down loads of talks or buy hard copy from office or web. Let me know,what did you think of it?
132 Comments:
Paul,
Was a great weekend. My thoughts are this - both guys were inspirational in different ways. Its good that they make you think BUT it would be difficult to "live" on this week after week.... Phil was entertaining but I would struggle to be challenged by the content level of the talks. It was a little like Jeff Lucas with slightly more content.....
Is this the way preaching is going? My fear is that we dumb down the word of God (in the guise of making it "understandable" to seekers..) What about all the people who have come to faith in the church already? Should we not be pushing them on in their faith?? Not just giving them "sermon - lite" every week....
CFC has a good tradition of challenging preaching - you and Andrew Toogood are two that come to mind as being challenging and relevant without being too religious.... That must be the way forward.
8:09 PM
Interesting
What is the future then? The "mega" church method seems to be seeker friendly services at the weekends with the teaching services held mid week for the members where more "teaching" takes place (Willow Creek?)
The tension is clear - make it relevant for people who have never heard whilst feeding those who want to learn and grow - I agree with Mr / Mrs Anonymous - we need to equip the WHOLE church to grow - the stuff at the weekend was great but every week would amount to little more than "sermon-lite" (as stated above) Personally I need more....
Thanks for the compliment though :-)
8:28 PM
I checked out the site, but don't see how I can download these talks... I'd love to be able to listen and learn from them, is there a direct link somewhere?
much appreciated,
thanks
3:28 AM
Unfortunately I didn't make it to CFC for the conference but it appeared to me to be an interesting mix of speakers! Certainly, it is about the lost. That is our commission. "The harvest is plentiful, but the workers are few. Ask the Lord of the harvest, therefore, to send out workers into his harvest field."
But how does the concept of church itself fit into this? Is the church for the believers or the lost or both? Where should we be
proclaiming the good news of the Kingdom?
I think that, as individual believers, we primarily are to bring the Kingdom of God into the lives of others at the personal, everyday level. The main aim of the organised chuch, however, should be as a gathering of believers to primarily worship God, then to fellowship together, share, teach, disciple, etc. Once we leave the "lost" to the organisation that we call church we lose out on the "yeast" effect.
Just my thoughts.
Keep up the good work at CFC.
William
9:33 PM
Why do we think church is for us? How much more do we need to be fed? If the relevent but 'lightweight' talk is what the hopeless, desperate lost person sat next to you or me needs, then mabe i just need to get on and feed myself, because surely their salvation is THE most important thing. And if it isn't then aren't we totally missing the point of why we are on this panet? Let's be honest there are certainly enough resourses out there for us to get all we need to live out this life. Grown-ups don't need to be spoon fed!
Some of these guys are seeing amazing results in their churches and whether or not i liked the sense of humour of the speaker i could only be inspired by the impact they are having in their communities.
10:52 PM
Well it certainly seems that the conference has stirred up some debate - unfortunately more on the speakers themselves than what they actually said - which is a little bit sad, dont you think? as a previous poster said, they are seeing a lot of growth, so you have to give consideration to what they have to say. For a large part of my early christian life I was part of a church culture that was suspicious of growth, success and any attempt to engage in any relevant way with society - so speakers like Phil and Erwin would definately have written off. I'd like to think that CFC is NOT that kind of church, so come on guys, lets allow our minds to be stretched a little! Well done Paul and all the leadership team who put this all together - I for one REALLY enjoyed it!
11:34 PM
I don't like going to church for many reasons: (1) I don't understand any of the jargon, therefore I don't know what the minister is talking about. (2) I don't feel welcomed in a new church - I feel judged. (3) It seems to me that it exists for its own selfish benefit, and not for the benefit of the community around it. (4) I hate sacred music. It's funerial. It's mournful and sad, and I won't listen to it. (5) I hate getting into a tie and a suit on Sunday morning, and for what -- to listen to jargon I don't understand, be judged by strangers, to have to listen to hideous music sung by menopausal women in shrill tones, to be lamely enticed into participating in work that only benefits the priviledged people who are members? The whole experience is irrelevant, foreign, insulting, uncomfortable, and an utter waste of time.
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