On the back foot no longer!
We are living in a day of political madness, sorry correctness gone mad. It has put Christians on the back foot. We are afraid to open our mouths in case we offend anyone.
I was at a leader's meeting the other day and one of the Pastors did a quite brilliant paper on creation. I must admit it took the rest of us aback. You see we have been so pilloried about a literal six day creation that to even mention the possibility that it's true as it's told is to be considered a weirdo...even in many church circles. I have come out of the creation closet! Yes ,my name is Paul and I believe that God created the earth in six days. The earth is at most 6-7 thousand years old and there was a literal universal flood. The first man was Adam and from him came Eve. Evolution is a theory and not a very good one at that. It is a world view which is diametrically opposed to Christianity. There I've said it and it felt good...and I will continue to say it.
posted by Paul Reid at 1:06 PM
11 Comments:
Paul, good on ya! It always amazes me why so many people avoid a literal interpretation of the clearly non-allegorical parts of the bible - Jesus did it (re. Jonah etc), so it's good enough for me. Perhaps it is because of the more challenging things spoken directly by Jesus that openly demand submission to Him and his rather intolerant route to salvation.
Many in the "new" forms of church that are "emerging" don't like such clarity.....
3:17 PM
Good on ya Paul - I can hear the cries already... "weirdo, fundamentalist bigot, closed minded, foolish etc etc"
We need to hold fast to the historical elements of our faith - once we start to erode one then it sets us on a path of a "pick and mix" faith - that for me does not work as we become the authors of what we believe.
This stuff is important!!
4:09 PM
I appreciate your honesty and am grateful that you're willing to talk about these things on your blog. I wonder however if your post creates a sense of antithesis between a doctrine of creation and evolution where none necessarily exists. I think it is possible to faithfully exegete Genesis 1-3 (which is inerrant and inspired) and to hold it in synthesis with a mechanism of evolutionary biology. Numerous theologians and scientists live quite comfortably with the two in tension. Interestingly, very few theologians felt the need to adopt a six day interpretation until after Darwin!I don't mean to imply that there will never be points of uncertainty and tension in our understanding - but I think you're going to have those whether you take a young earth creationist, intelligent design or theistic evolutionary approach. I think it's also worth mentioning that evolution of itself is not a worldview (whatever Richard Dawkins might have us believe!) - it is a theory that is not in itself atheistic - however inaccurately it may be portrayed by some of its more vocal advocates. I hope this doesn't appear unfairly critical of your post - my hope is that we can approach both the biblical text and the science with integrity rather than contribute to the false polarisation of positions that many fundamentalist atheists seem to be trying hard to create. Alister McGrath and Francis Collins are both evangelicals who have written helpfully on this area recently and you might be interested in some of their books.
11:59 PM
Well done Paul.
I also made the choice some time back to believe God's Word as it is given to us. If I am wrong then Jesus will have to rebuke me when I stand before Him.
God bless
3:13 PM
I agree with the 3rd commenter (anonymous) here. As a scientist, it is easier to be a Christian in science than it is to be a scientist in the church (something I have heard many Christians who are scientists say).
Personally, it would be intellectually dishonest of me to pretend to believe in 6-day creationism, as my understanding and reading of the literature suggest to me that evolution is the best theory we currently have.
Evolution is not a worldview - it is a theoretical foundation (which itself is changing and evolving over many years of research and thinking) from which we derive hypotheses and test them.
What evolution actually *means* is determined, I suspect, by the sociocultural environment and the personal constructs of the individual. To me it is about progress and development, an exciting process to be part of. To others, it is a threat to their religious faith or concept of God. It is how you interpret evolutionary theory within your worldview which determines whether or not you perceive it as a threat.
When it comes to the relationship between science and faith, I think these guys have put it far better than I ever could:
"26.24 It is often supposed that science and religious belief are incompatible. Indeed, a dichotomy does exist between some traditional views of God's interaction with the universe and science's perception of natural laws. If we only use God to fill the gaps wherever a rational explanation has not been found, God's role must diminish as scientific understanding grows. A `God of the gaps' is inevitably a rather small God. However, the immanence of God in our world may be appreciated through Science as vividly as through the Arts. Many scientists daily experience God through their work: in the elegance and sophistication of natural design or the beauty and harmony revealed in certain theories. The growing body of scientific knowledge demands a continuous re-thinking of what is meant by `Creator' but our greater understanding magnifies rather than diminishes our appreciation of God.
Science and religion have much in common. They are communal activities and involve a search for some greater truth. The sharing of ideas is fundamental to both. The discipline of science can make a valuable contribution to religious thought; critical honesty, the willingness to abandon old ideas and modes of thought when fresh insight demands it and the centrality of experience as an arbiter of truth are as important in one as in the other. In both the scientific and religious searches for truth, the implications of current beliefs are explored to see where they lead. Beliefs are not just safe ledges in an uncertain reality, but rather handholds from which further heights can be reached."
Eleven Quaker scientists, 1989
(From British Yearly Meeting's 'Quaker Faith & Practice')
10:03 PM
forgive me for being stupid and it is a genuine question but why does it matter so much that we have believe in one or the other? God made the world and me end of story. Is God going to ask us on the day of judgement which one we believe? I think it says we we'll be asked how we treated others not which school of thought we subscribe to.
6:15 PM
Rooster,
I wonder what Paul thinks. For me, freedom of conscience is extremely important. I cannot (or rather, I will not, because it would be dishonest of me to do so) convince myself to believe something because I am told to. The inherent danger in someone who is a leader of a large church saying, "I believe in 6-day creation" is that it could imply, "So should you."
We should all be free to believe as our conscience guides us. This is important to me (far more important to me than the almost passing fact that I believe evolutionary theory is the best explanation for life we currently have).
As you say, there are far more important issues like how you treat other people.
CA
5:27 PM
Good post ‘contemplative activist’. I like the concept that ‘Science and religion have much in common. They are communal activities and involve a search for some greater truth. The sharing of ideas is fundamental to both’. We can illustrate this in our faith through an ongoing discovery and re-discovery of both ‘old’ and ‘new’ truth. If we understand the Council of Nicea setting out principles, with names such as Augustine, Tomas Aquinas, and others helping to develop our understanding. Experientially we find Martin Luther changing the understanding of the day in terms of salvation, the Pentecostal Church growth restoring ‘Spiritual Gifts’, and the restoration of the understanding of the Church as community, to name but a few. So our understanding of our faith changes as we discover, and re-discover the God who loves us.
Scientifically we understand Newton’s mechanics, and how with the introduction of wave particle duality we develop a further understanding of how the universe works. It was only a few years ago that we came closer to understanding how our Sun works with the discovery that neutrinos have mass and can blend one to the other. This is an extension of the understanding that particles act like waves, and can actually ‘wave’ into other particles. With the very recent discovery that the universes known matter is accelerating away from each other – and applying Newton’s laws, we understand there must be an outside force acting on them – hence the concepts of Dark Matter and Dark Energy.
Mixing the science and faith elements helps me. Consider this – that Jesus was completely God, and completely Man, neither diminishing the other, nor dominating the other? How can this be? Actually, from our limited understanding of the universe, this seems ‘normal’ in the quantum world. Both particle and wave, depending how you look at it.
Time is even more interesting – it seems to have a beginning, and seems (as far as we understand) to have an end. Our God has seen the end of time, and the beginning of time and from his point of view a thousand years is but a day – which Einstein would heartily agree with.
The neutrinos from the Sun have three types. With quantum mixing we can say there are three distinct and different types, but one neutrino. Sounds awfully like Father, Son and Holy Spirit, three persons, one God.
Please don’t misunderstand me here. I believe our God transcends the Universe he created. As we find in ourselves a reflection of his image (we are eternal souls, we have body, mind & spirit, we live in community, we love, and sorrow, and joy), in the same way the Universe he created reflects his image.
So to the point. I believe that integrity of approach is important. An open mind is important. God our Father is not afraid of questions, or debate, and neither should we be. Science is our friend, because it helps us understand the Universe our God created, and hence we see his image reflected in his creation. I like the comment; ‘In both the scientific and religious searches for truth, the implications of current beliefs are explored to see where they lead’. Come let us reason together . . .
6:11 PM
Good post ‘contemplative activist’. I like the concept that ‘Science and religion have much in common. They are communal activities and involve a search for some greater truth. The sharing of ideas is fundamental to both’. We can illustrate this in our faith through an ongoing discovery and re-discovery of both ‘old’ and ‘new’ truth. If we understand the Council of Nicea setting out principles, with names such as Augustine, Tomas Aquinas, and others helping to develop our understanding. Experientially we find Martin Luther changing the understanding of the day in terms of salvation, the Pentecostal Church growth restoring ‘Spiritual Gifts’, and the restoration of the understanding of the Church as community, to name but a few. So our understanding of our faith changes as we discover, and re-discover the God who loves us.
Scientifically we understand Newton’s mechanics, and how with the introduction of wave particle duality we develop a further understanding of how the universe works. It was only a few years ago that we came closer to understanding how our Sun works with the discovery that neutrinos have mass and can blend one to the other. This is an extension of the understanding that particles act like waves, and can actually ‘wave’ into other particles. With the very recent discovery that the universes known matter is accelerating away from each other – and applying Newton’s laws, we understand there must be an outside force acting on them – hence the concepts of Dark Matter and Dark Energy.
Mixing the science and faith elements helps me. Consider this – that Jesus was completely God, and completely Man, neither diminishing the other, nor dominating the other? How can this be? Actually, from our limited understanding of the universe, this seems ‘normal’ in the quantum world. Both particle and wave, depending how you look at it.
Time is even more interesting – it seems to have a beginning, and seems (as far as we understand) to have an end. Our God has seen the end of time, and the beginning of time and from his point of view a thousand years is but a day – which Einstein would heartily agree with.
The neutrinos from the Sun have three types. With quantum mixing we can say there are three distinct and different types, but one neutrino. Sounds awfully like Father, Son and Holy Spirit, three persons, one God.
Please don’t misunderstand me here. I believe our God transcends the Universe he created. As we find in ourselves a reflection of his image (we are eternal souls, we have body, mind & spirit, we live in community, we love, and sorrow, and joy), in the same way the Universe he created reflects his image.
So to the point. I believe that integrity of approach is important. An open mind is important. God our Father is not afraid of questions, or debate, and neither should we be. Science is our friend, because it helps us understand the Universe our God created, and hence we see his image reflected in his creation. I like the comment; ‘In both the scientific and religious searches for truth, the implications of current beliefs are explored to see where they lead’. Come let us reason together . . .
6:11 PM
Good post ‘contemplative activist’. I like the concept that ‘Science and religion have much in common. They are communal activities and involve a search for some greater truth. The sharing of ideas is fundamental to both’. We can illustrate this in our faith through an ongoing discovery and re-discovery of both ‘old’ and ‘new’ truth. If we understand the Council of Nicea setting out principles, with names such as Augustine, Tomas Aquinas, and others helping to develop our understanding. Experientially we find Martin Luther changing the understanding of the day in terms of salvation, the Pentecostal Church growth restoring ‘Spiritual Gifts’, and the restoration of the understanding of the Church as community, to name but a few. So our understanding of our faith changes as we discover, and re-discover the God who loves us.
Scientifically we understand Newton’s mechanics, and how with the introduction of wave particle duality we develop a further understanding of how the universe works. It was only a few years ago that we came closer to understanding how our Sun works with the discovery that neutrinos have mass and can blend one to the other. This is an extension of the understanding that particles act like waves, and can actually ‘wave’ into other particles. With the very recent discovery that the universes known matter is accelerating away from each other – and applying Newton’s laws, we understand there must be an outside force acting on them – hence the concepts of Dark Matter and Dark Energy.
Mixing the science and faith elements helps me. Consider this – that Jesus was completely God, and completely Man, neither diminishing the other, nor dominating the other? How can this be? Actually, from our limited understanding of the universe, this seems ‘normal’ in the quantum world. Both particle and wave, depending how you look at it.
Time is even more interesting – it seems to have a beginning, and seems (as far as we understand) to have an end. Our God has seen the end of time, and the beginning of time and from his point of view a thousand years is but a day – which Einstein would heartily agree with.
The neutrinos from the Sun have three types. With quantum mixing we can say there are three distinct and different types, but one neutrino. Sounds awfully like Father, Son and Holy Spirit, three persons, one God.
Please don’t misunderstand me here. I believe our God transcends the Universe he created. As we find in ourselves a reflection of his image (we are eternal souls, we have body, mind & spirit, we live in community, we love, and sorrow, and joy), in the same way the Universe he created reflects his image.
So to the point. I believe that integrity of approach is important. An open mind is important. God our Father is not afraid of questions, or debate, and neither should we be. Science is our friend, because it helps us understand the Universe our God created, and hence we see his image reflected in his creation. I like the comment; ‘In both the scientific and religious searches for truth, the implications of current beliefs are explored to see where they lead’. Come let us reason together . . .
7:44 PM
DSE - I like your thinking!
Actually, I came across a wonderful quote in Richard Holloway's "Dancing on the Edge" which deals with the issue of theological marginalisation and when we feel there is evidence against our Christian beliefs (or against those we are expected to believe by our faith communities).
"...whenever we have to choose between truth and Christ, we must choose truth, because Christ is truth...and if we choose truth we cannot go far without falling again into his arms."
10:44 PM
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