Emerging Theology
But DSE you just don't get do you?
Yes our life is about and centered on a man; Christ Jesus. But where did you get the initial information from? If the basis of your faith is not centered on the scriptures then you are free to recreate your own Jesus. I'm not suggesting you have, just that if there are bits you don't like for instance Substitutionary Atonement then just cut it out. You may have a genuine faith in the real Jesus but have adjusted your views on scripture but what of those who have no foundation in scripture?
It's why the Creeds were written. At one time it was enough to say "Jesus is Lord." But then the early church had to expand that as it became apparent that there were different views on who Jesus was. If our faith in Christ is not based on scripture then God help us.
James 1;18 "He choose to give us birth through the word of truth, that we might be a kind of firstfruits of all he created."
posted by Paul Reid at 12:35 PM
5 Comments:
Interesting debate. Our views on Christ should be based on our encounter with Him. In some senses, Scripture - if it is not taken and revealed by the Holy Spirit - is only 'dead' and will not reveal Christ to us. Paul said ' we do not even know Christ after the flesh. Many of us balance 'word' and 'spirit' equally but I suggest that 'the word' is not equal to the Spirit.
I would invite contributors to read an article by Frank Viola called "Will the emerging church fully emerge?". If you google Frank Viola his website is 'ptministry' or something like that.
Frank (among others) is looking for the 'Ekklesia' that comes from the heart of God that is being prepared as a bride for Jesus. The emerging church movement may well be a response to the growing 'McDonaldisation' or 'Americanisation' of the church but if it is not connected to the Head and manifesting Jesus it is no better than what it seeks to critique.
2:47 PM
Paul,
Perhaps if you could be a little more specific?
If you research the emergent church, you'll find Erwin Mcmanus's name in lists of emergent church influences, along with (surprisingly, on one site, Tony Campolo and C.S. Lewis!)
From what I know based on talks I've heard, etc, Erwin lends support to folks like Rob Bell, who according to another source, was branded a heretic by Mark Driscoll!
How much of this is sour grapes over who has the better program?
I listen to Erwin Mcmanus regularly, to Brian Houston, to Rob Bell, to you, the list goes on, but I have the ability to accept or refute anything that is said from whatever source which does not resonate with God's Word.
I'm wondering if you're painting with too broad a brush here?
Y.E.
3:54 PM
Hi Paul
This article in Christionity Today published in February 07 is quite informative about the steams of emerging theology. It's quite balanced giving warnings as well as seeing the positives of the emerging church.
4:57 PM
oops forgot to give link!
http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2007/february/11.35.html
4:59 PM
OK Paul, let me see if I can articulate your position, to demonstrate, in part, that I ‘get it’. You believe that the Bible is inspired by God, who through the human authors is the divine author of the Bible. You would probably quote;
‘All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 2 Timothy 3:16 NIV’.
I guess by faith that you believe in the inspiration of scripture and that it is infallible. You believe that what the scriptures say regarding matters of faith and Christian practice are wholly useful and true. You may also believe that the historical or scientific details, which may be irrelevant to matters of faith and Christian practice, may not contain any errors. You believe that the scientific, geographic, and historic details of the scriptural texts in their original manuscripts are completely true and without error. The theological basis of your faith, in its simplest form, is that as God is perfect, the Bible, as the word of God, must also be perfect, thus, free from error.
You believe that God used the distinctive personalities and literary styles of the writers of scripture but that God's inspiration guided them to flawlessly project his message through their own language and personality. You also believe that the canon of scripture that you have included all books that should have been included, and excluded all books that should have been excluded. This is what is known as a zero sum game. It is either ‘1’ or ‘0’, all or nothing, completely wholly true, or not. No compromises, no half measures, without give. Hopefully that broadly indicates your understanding. If not, I am open to correction.
However, I understand that for you the issue at stake is scripture, how you come to it and approach it. I understand your concerns that if you pick and mix elements in scripture then everything is up for grabs – and the fear is that, actually, it really is up for grabs.
Stephen Hill, thank you for the reference – I found it both very interesting and very useful. Indeed the reference makes the point well. Do we spend our efforts arguing for the whole veracity of scripture, and have no truck with those who disagree with us, or do we understand that the goal is Jesus and that scripture is only one way to come to him. The point you make above of ‘creating our own Jesus’ is an important one. So how do I discover Jesus, without the danger of creating my own Jesus, or our own Jesus?
1. Through the scriptures for sure.
2. Through my own personal revelation and experience.
3. Through the communion of saints (Augustine, Tozer, C.S.Lewis, Philip Yancey etc.).
4. Through the current fellowship of believers, and
5. Through the teachings and traditions of the Church (e.g. The Creeds, ‘We believe in God the Father . . .’)
It’s in this tension that we are learning who Jesus is.
So the thrust of the debate is - lets engage with those whose understanding of scripture is different, it’s position of authority (or not) is different than ours, and who are currently on a journey, like we should all be?
John 1: 14-17
The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth. John testifies concerning him. He cries out, saying, This was he of whom I said, 'He who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.' From the fulness of his grace we have all received one blessing after another. For the law was given through Moses; Grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.
We often compete to ‘Out-Truth’ each other. Perhaps it is time to try and ‘Out-Grace’ each other. Let’s look at who the scriptures point to, rather than arguing about the sign. I believe that our happy smiling God laughs at our intense debates, like a Father watching his children arguing as to who got more Coca-Cola in their glass.
As for me, I’m not sure I am that concerned if every passage is absolutely and totally inspired, or whether the author simply wrote from their own viewpoint. I guess it’s more important to ask if we’ve met the one it points to.
It’s like reading an autobiography, then meeting the author, and arguing that he’s not the same as he appears in his book?
I think the grace of God allows us to find our place in our understanding of the scriptures.
Happy days!
Thanks Stephen Hill for the Frank Viola link.
Thanks rooster for the Christianity Today link.
Merry Christmas everyone !
8:24 PM
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