Todd Bentley and Lakeland
It was the last Monday in January 1994 when I got a phone call from a former elder of CFC who had emigrated to Toronto the previous year. His Church, The Airport Vineyard, had just had a "special" weekend and something unusual happened; the children, after being prayed for, fell down and started laughing!
The Pastor, John Arnot, had asked the speaker for the weekend to stay for the rest of the week and continue the meetings. My friend continued to call me every so often and give me an update and in August 1994 a group of twelve of us went to Toronto to see for ourselves.
Computers weren't commonplace and cell phones in their infancy but I knew what was going on because of my mate on the ground. The UK didn't have God TV. However something unusual and for many of us new, was happening.
Something is happening in Florida. But is it being driven by the Christian Media? Would it have been better to "wait and see" before everyone, well not everyone, in the UK and Ireland jumped in with both feet?
I haven't been personally but am adopting my own wait and see policy. But if you ask God for years for something and you get an answer but not exactly in the package you expected. What do you do?
posted by Paul Reid at 12:12 PM
12 Comments:
I agree with your wait and see attitude Paul.
The last time I watched Todd Bentley he said "there has now been 15 people resurrected from the dead" (one of these was in Northern Ireland)
At times I think I am to skeptical. If 15 people were raised from the dead why is it not headline news around the world? I fully do believe in healing and resurrection but don't know if this is true, I have no evidence except Todd's word.
I read this article by J.Lee Grady thought there was some good points: ~ http://charismamag.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2435
4:16 PM
I watched TB for the first time last night (never heard of him before). The first 15 minutes, well not exactly my cup of tea but if God chooses to bless people through someone's ministry it is a very wise person that doesn't go against them! (Actually Wesley said that). The next 10 minutes however soured things with what I felt was a highly manipulative and overdone appeal (not quite the correct word) for money. I switched back to the cricket highlights wondering "Is something rotten in the state of Denmark?"
12:15 AM
why wait and see?
Would you not be better giving the church a steer on this?
Why would you not do that - my recollection is that CFC were more definite when Toronto was happening (that was God) so what is the difference now?
I would like to see you actually take a position on it.
2:10 PM
Please can I share my testimony with you and others about my experience with the "Florida Outpouring"?
When I first heard about a revival occurring in the US through a church member's announcement, my reaction was one of hopeful anticipation. I eventually signed up on the internet for GodTV after looking briefly at the FFM website about Todd Bentley's ministry (I’m in the UK) and other references to the “Florida Outpouring”. On the FFM website, the friend of Todd Bentley who was chosen to give his testimony about Todd Bentley, a man he had grown to know over many years sounded very impressive giving a description of a holy, prayerful man! My first concern was about the lengthy periods of time Todd Bentley has spent seeking God, often by himself, the concern being that we can be subject to great temptation and unbalanced spiritual understanding during extremely lengthy times spent hidden away by ourselves.
However, since I didn’t know anything about this man or the background of this ‘move’, I prayed that God would show me what was from him (though I thought since miracles of healing were reported that surely it can’t be anything but from Him!) and started watching and taking part in the meetings online. Everything seemed sincere in the stadium meetings in that there were passionate worshippers at the meetings and there was much excitement, and the long worship times seemed to focus on God. I was receptive and was not expecting or hoping to find anything wrong because you don't when you are longing to share the joy of renewed passion in God and an expectation of God encouraging and sending people out to share the Gospel. It was fascinating watching because there was certainly a power that Todd Bentley had and he was able to exert a great influence over the crowd and on those expectant to receive something. I had watched a number of meetings, and found the format for each was pretty similar: an exciting introduction to the meeting for GodTV viewers, a long worship time (there may have already been worship before going on air), then Todd Bentley would approach the speaker stand (sometimes getting up off the floor from what I assumed was his prayers) and talk about the great anointing for the meeting and about the visions and visitations of a particular angel he has had both in the past and in recent times, there would be some variations in the way the ‘anointed ministry’ would be carried out: (e.g. pastors being called out to the front for an ‘impartation’ of power or Todd Bentley would fire off lists of people’s ailments, often being specific cases rather than general which knew about and would say that these people wherever they were situated were at that moment feeling a power/electricity going through their body) and a time for the people wanting to go up onto the main platform to give their testimony of the healing they had experienced; this was in the form of a brief interview and these people would all be touched by Todd Bentley and they would in most cases fall backwards ‘unconsciously’ or with very visible physical convulsions to the ground. Throughout the meetings, Todd Bentley would shake in his head and body under in his anointing.
For a few days I got caught up in all the excitement and I was praising God that He should be moving mightily and doing so many amazing things. After watching a few meetings with fascination and excitement over 2-3 days including recordings of past meetings both at the stadium and at Ignited Church, I was certainly rejoicing that people who have really suffered in different ways had miraculously received healing. We rejoice when we see what we believe to be a miraculous act of God and naturally, we want to rejoice with those who’ve been “set free”. I suspect that these meetings can easily grow on someone addictively since the visible signs of God moving are evident and people’s personal testimonies are remarkable and many of us have deep personal needs we long for to be met. For me though, even with all these attractive qualities in the meetings, there were definitely things that, in the background of my mind, disturbed me.
What was happening in those meetings had a powerful attraction, and yet they raised questions I wanted to find answers for. However, not questions like “Why should God heal?” or “Why Todd Bentley?” as I believe that when we put our trust in Jesus’ death on the cross by which paid for the sins of the whole world with His blood as the sinless Lamb of God, and believe in God’s message to us of salvation by repentance and faith in Him, that we are born a second time! – spiritual regeneration by the Holy Spirit, and He also offers us the gift of the empowering of the Holy Spirit as promised by the Father for all believers as for the first disciples at Pentecost if we would accept it. Therefore I believe the Apostle Paul’s teaching on the spiritual gifts from the Holy Spirit in 1 Corinthians 12 and on the leadership roles in the Body of Christ and his teaching on the right and spiritual way of conducting Church meetings with regard to operating in the gifts of the Spirit, is still relevant and not belonging to a particular Church age in the distant past.
The disquiet I had was to do with (a) the focus on healing (for a big ‘move’ of God) as I don’t believe God would want to limit His Gospel message to that – that’s in evidence in the book of Acts and in the Apostolic teachings and throughout the Bible, God looks for repentance from all people and a desire for holiness in the lives of believers; that (b) although the music and the worshipping atmosphere at Lakeland meetings became across as exhilarating, there only appeared to be one kind of worship which did not then result in a reverence that can lead to a conviction of sin and repentance of pride etc. or a reverence that might lead to praying to God. Certainly the worship, though powerful, was almost devoid of Scriptural content and the ascribing of praise to God was pretty vague. Our God, the God of Isaac, Jacob and Abraham of the Holy Bible has special attributes that distinguish Him far above from other false ‘gods’ but I’m afraid you wouldn’t have been made the wiser through hearing the worship; (c) the manner and appearance in and by which power was distributed and received; (d) there was barely any evidence of God’s Word in that there was: no Biblical input through the reading of Scripture, no teaching based on the Scriptures to encourage and strengthen believers, although Todd Bentley’s gentle, and other times loud, words were persuasive. [In his letter of 1st Timothy, the Apostle Paul gives a number of specific commands which he explains in detail to Timothy, his “true son in the faith and with regard to Biblical content 4v13: “Until I come, devote yourself to the public reading of Scripture, to preaching and teaching…Be diligent in these matters…Watch your life and doctrine closely. Persevere in them, because if you do, you will save both yourself and your hearers”. (e) Todd Bentley’s repeated teachings and his testimonies which recount his visitations from angels and special angels and the messages he has received from them, and more worryingly teaching us that specific angels carry out specific duties on God’s behalf e.g. healing virtue and finance; (f) we hear very little, if anything at all, about Jesus Christ, the Son of God and certainly, as far as I have witnessed in many of the meetings I watched, there was no specific praise given to Jesus Christ or any reference to His work on the cross, or how wonderful it is that we have been saved and have been given eternal life etc., and how great Jesus is that He laid down His life for us, or how His bodily death and blood has by a new and living way opened up the way for all who believe in His work to personally enter into God’s holy presence (Hebrews 10v19-23)! ‘God’ was mentioned but in a vague way. We were encouraged to give glory to ‘God’ but I didn’t get a picture of Him, and those of us who have trusted in Christ Jesus, know from His word that God is not a vague being, and in fact I’m sure many of us know of unbelievers who talk about ‘god’. In contrast, Todd Bentley talked a lot about angels and in great detail (without specific references from the Bible), what they looked like and the messages they gave him, and Todd Bentley’s testimonies of what God has been doing through him and his ministry team on foreign missions and meetings much of which concerning the miraculous was breathtaking! So we hear all about the doing’s and the happening’s, but not about our God Himself!
After I started really looking beneath the surface of these events and did a lot of research into this ministry, and Todd Bentley and his associate friends’ teachings and was open to reading the views on either side, either for or against. I was challenged and believe my Heavenly Father was not pleased with my spending numerous hours looking at what other people’s opinions were, researching with my self-directed motives, and not giving greater importance and value to His written word and not praying and drawing close to God much during this time in my search for a confirmation of whether or not this WAS of our God in heaven.
I have to admit that, for me, it took many hours (because of my immaturity in the faith, worldliness that is living independently of my Father, and obstinancy? Yes to all!) and days of study. The Word of God throughout the Old and New Testament contains Truth through and through. It was through the study of the Scriptures that has convinced me that the 'power' we are witnessing, having the appearance of being from God due to the great number of healing 'miracles' being performed, is NOT the work of God our Father but is the working and power of the Evil One masquerading as an angel of light. The Bible teaches us very clearly that Devil has been defeated by Jesus’ work on the cross, but has much power within his means to confuse and dupe with counterfeit signs and miracles those unable to or not wishing to test things because they do not see a reason to question anything because ‘wonders’ are occurring. These signs and words spoken at these “Florida Outpouring” meetings give the appearance of exalting or glorifying 'God' but they stop short of short of proclaiming the truth about the Lord Jesus Christ. The music and the worshipping atmosphere at Lakeland meetings were very persuasive but had little substance of the Truth of which they sing about there. (I suppose that reflects a lot of what is fashionable. Maybe the simpler the words with little Christian doctrine is more attractive and allows people to forget themselves and get caught up and feel wonderful in their worship. That is also a snare!) But I found that the people on the platform do not speak of Jesus Christ – maybe an occasional reference to ‘Jesus’, and were primarily interested in the ‘POWER’. They are in fact, due to deluded thinking, denying the message of the power of the Gospel; the main 'leaders' only hint at the message about the Gospel but actually concentrate on things which are beyond the boundaries Scriptural teaching (if you believe in 2 Timothy 3v16). They are not preaching what the apostles of Christ in the Bible had taught. Many in the Church have for a long time been desiring 'wisdom', 'new' insights, 'extra-biblical-ordinary' outward signs and are being deceived. In Paul's 1st letter to Timothy regarding biblical teaching, he gives the following teaching: "All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work. In the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who will judge the living and the dead, and in view of his appearing and his kingdom, I give you this charge: Preach the Word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage - with great patience and careful instruction. For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths." 2 Timothy 3:16 - 4:4. Many things can sound like they are Christian. However, the 'power' and 'wisdom' spoken of at the ‘Outpouring’ are not scriptural.
Many of us in the Body of Christ of course want to see God moving and people glorifying God in the Church. Whenever the Devil acts to bring in deception through both subtle and unsubtle changes and presents counterfeits (the ways of God are true and the fruit He produces ARE the complete opposite) which HARM the Body of Christ. Remember that the Devil only wants to is to steal, kill and destroy whereas Jesus, the Good Shepherd gives life: "I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full" John 10. Paul speaks with wisdom that comes from heaven:
“Paul, a servant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ for the faith of God’s elect and the knowledge of the truth that leads to godliness - a faith and knowledge resting on the hope of eternal life, which God, who does not lie, promised before the beginning of time, and at his appointed season he brought his word to light through the preaching entrusted to me by the command of God our Saviour”. Titus 1: 1-3.
“So then, let us not be like others, who are asleep, but let us be alert and self-controlled. For those who sleep, sleep at night, and those who get drunk, get drunk at night. But since we belong to the day, let us be self-controlled, putting on faith and love as a breastplate, and the hope of salvation as a helmet.” 1 Thessalonians 5:6-8
“I am jealous for you with a godly jealousy. I promised you to one husband, to Christ, so that I might present you as a pure virgin to him. But I am afraid that just as Eve was deceived by the serpent’s cunning, your minds may somehow be led astray from your sincere and pure devotion to Christ. For if someone comes to you and preaches a Jesus other than the Jesus we preached, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it easily enough. But I do not think I am in the least inferior to those “super-apostles”.
2 Corinthians 11:2 -5
"I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel - which is really no gospel at all." v8"But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned! As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!" Galatians 1:6-12
Paul has also instructed us that though we should not put out the Spirit's fire, and treat prophecies with contempt, we must TEST everything! 1 Thessalonians 4v19-22.
We need to follow the Paul's command to the Body of Christ to put on the full armour of God (Ephesians 6) “Be strong in the Lord and in his mighty power. Put on the full armour of God so that you can take your stand against the devil’s schemes. For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms. Therefore put on the full armour of God, so that when the day of evil comes you may be able to stand your ground…” And what is the first piece of spiritual armour he tells us to put on firmly around our waist? The belt of truth! What next? The breastplate of righteousness. (Please see the Ephesians 6: 10-18.)
Brothers and sisters in Christ, if we do not follow the Word of God and do not put on God’s spiritual protective armour, and instead choose to go outside of God’s teaching (it is a choice) and the Apostolic teaching of doctrinal truth on our salvation, we are very much putting ourselves at risk of agreeing to heresies that have been secretly introduced. There is much more to say, but I think there is enough here already. Many more passages of Scripture could have been used, but you need to find out what is in the Word of God. Anyone can quote a verses here and there, and I have quoted some portions. The point isn’t to do it to prove ourselves; knowing the Word of God is to be properly armed in our walk with God.
We have a real adversary, brothers and sisters in Christ, and how did the brethren overcome the accuser of the brethren? What is the answer? “They overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony” Revelation 12 v11
Yours with love and faith in Christ Jesus,
Jessica
11:10 PM
Hey Paul I wonder wether a 'Go and See attitude might be worth taking!! I was cautious at first but began to hear stories of peoples lives being changed...just like Toronto... I've been to N Belfast Brian Maddens place and whilst his style is not my COT there is def a powerful presence of God
Ive watched God TV only since the Lakeland Revival (didn't want it before) and got knocked off my feet in my living room!!!
After your Sunday talk (fantastic as always!) i wonder wether its time to get out of the boat and walk into Lakeland....go on I dare you ;0)
4:46 PM
I have too been quite cautious about Todd Bentley in particular. I have read all the articles regarding his emphasis on angels and him kicking people he was praying for, etc. I don't know - are we only going to accept a move of God if we agree with everything that is preached, if we like the way everything is done? Todd Bentley has prophicied that the revival will spread to Northern Ireland. I for one would be deeply disappointed for CFC if we were not a part of it. I don't really understand the part that revival plays in history but if God is doing something amazing and his presence is with his people, I would like to be there.
9:40 PM
Some interesting developments in the discussion, one can see the polarization as is often the case with these things! Here is another angle on it. Kind of like when the angel of the Lord appeared to Joshua and he asked are you for us or our enemies.The answer was neither, but for the army of heaven. In a way with Lakeland I counsell to be neither for it or against! I explain. So as not to polarize the church, and rule out the probability that certain spiritual gifts are in operation in Lakeland, namely healings, miracles and probably faith gifts.Many are being touch and will be, though there should be better substantiation of miraculous claims which should not be that difficult,you would agree. On the other hand, I would caution the running to Lakeland and kissing our brains and discernment goodbye. Often charismatic movements emphasise certain gifts and neglect others. It is this carnal emphasis on sign gifts and the lesser gifts that gets charismania its bad name! Other gift manifestations include wisdom, discernment, leadership and teaching. Tongues without interpretation should be closed down, and this principal applies to eccentric and unhelpful manifestations, it is so obvious one wonders why things are profiled inappropriately. The other issue of discernment is to see that revival in other contexts which does have better order and other gifts in operation are not receiving media interest, I am thinking especially of a revival I witnessed in Brazil where one denomination has experienced over 40 years of revival, has grown from 8 people to about a million, they downplay personalities, emphasize the body, profile wisdom and discernment above healing and tongues, and fill stadiums and probably most people have not went over there to visit and do not know any of the personalities involved.40 years experience carries something beyond a move aged a number of weeks, so I agree " wait and see" is actually proactive and wise, although that is not television friendly in approach! we are in an instant coffee mentality and "play station 5 stimulate me" mentality. Let us press on to maturity, we ought to be experiencing real life in Christ and the Spirit, knowing Him from the least to the greatest,that really there is no real attraction for the sensational, and we have no axe to grind either way.
5:26 PM
Thank you for your wisdom in not running of to Lakeland. I have listened, read and watched quite a bit on the subject and I can only discern, that this does not glorify God.I have watched Todd spinning someone round until they fell, and then one of his co workers kick them on the floor. I watched him pray for a leader in the name of 'bael' something.(I couldn't quite make the 2nd word out) Lets wait and see if there is any fruit. God is a patient God, and if we wait, I believe we will miss nothing He has for us.
God bless
9:03 PM
If a local Belfast pastor said he has a lady angel, called Emma,assigned to him - to bless him with guidance and finance;if he claimed to regularly visit the Third Heaven and spend time with the Apostle Paul - with Abraham and David looking on;if he publicly shared his testimony that as a born-again, Spirit-filled, tongues-speaking, preacher he had 25 demons cast out of him. Would all of this not matter - as long as the church was "in blessing"?
Look up these and other strange and peculiar teachings from Todd Bentley on the Internet.
2:33 PM
I AM FROM NORTHERN IRELAND AND I'VE BEEN PRAYING FOR A MOVE OF GOD, I HAVE BEEN LITERALLY BLOWN OF MY FEET WATCHING THE FLORIDA REVIVAL LIVE TIL 3-4 IN THE MORNING, AND WE ARE LIVING IN SUCH AN IMPORTANT TIME IN HISTORY WHY WAIT!!!!! WHY NOT STEP OUT OF THE BOAT, GET YOUR EYES OF THE MAN AND GET YOUR EYES ON GOD!!!! IF PEOPLE ARE GETTING SAVED HEALED WHY DOUBT THAT OUR GOD CAN DO THESE THINGS, LETS NOT BE DOUBTING THOMAS'S SEEK GOD AND NO HIS HEART, ITS NOT JUST IN FLORIDA ITS HAPPENING ALL OVER THE WORLD!!!! BUT I DO UNDERSTAND AS A PASTOR OF A LARGE CHURCH YOU HAVE TO BE CAREFUL, BUT AT THE TIME OF THE TORONTO BLESSING, ALOT OF THINGS NOT FROM GOD JUMPED ON THE BANDWAGON!!!! YOU CAN'T PLEASE ALL OF THE PEOPLE ALL OF THE TIME, SEEK AND ASK GOD, BUT I NO WHAT I FEEL, I HAVE BEEN TO ELIM AND ITS NOT MY CUP OF TEA, BUT THE PRESENCE OF GOD IS REAL!!!!! STOP EXPECTING GOD TO FIT IN WITH OUR AGENDA, WE SHOULD BE WAITING ON GODS AGENDA FOR HIS CHURCH, HE WILL RETURN FOR HIS GLORIOUS BRIDE AND ITS NOT ONLY TODD BENTLEY WHO HAS GIVEN A PROPHETIC WORD ABOUT IRELAND,THERE HAVE PLENTY OF WORDS GIVEN FOR IRELAND OVER THE YEARS, OH! YEA OF LITTLE FAITH, GET OUT OF THE BOAT!!!!!
9:28 PM
As I read about Todd Bentley's visitations with angels, something that Jesus said came to me. He said "For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform signs and miracles to decieve even the elect-- if that were possible." (Matthew 24, 24-25.) I am concerned that some people are going to see Todd Bentley because they are excited about what he is doing and saying. And if he is a false prophet, he will deceive many of those excited people that hear him. Also, I'm concerned that their focus will be in the wrong place. They will be focussed on todd Bentley, and not on Jesus, the Saviour that loves them and died for them.
Kathy
5:36 AM
Jessica! Your comments are beautiful, and the heart you expressed awesome! I too have searched the word, and tested the spirit, and have not found it to line up with the word. My heart has been broken as many of my dearest friends, and family have become caught up in the "outward appearance" of all of this. I applaud you, and there are many that have ears to hear what the Spirit is saying. Stay close to the word, and I pray God will continue to give you more wisdom, and the ability for us all to remember our life is to lived in the way of the cross! "There is a way that seems right unto man, but the end thereof leads to death." " Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it." Let us pursue this path! There is only one Way.. Blessings! Lisa
11:48 PM
Post a Comment
Links to this post:
Create a Link
<< Home